OR BREAKS ITS PROMISE.
WOLF?
>> TOM FOREMAN, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
JUST A LITTLE WHILE AGO I SPOKE
WITH THE FORMER BRITISH PRIME
MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON.
HE’S DEALT WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN
ON THE WORLD STAGE OVER THE
YEARS.
HE’S ALSO ONE OF THE FIRST WORLD
LEADERS TO VISIT PRESIDENT
ZELENSKYY IN KYIV SOON AFTER THE
RUSSIAN INVASION.
AND HAS MADE MULTIPLE TRIPS TO
UKRAINE SINCE THEN.
PRIME MINISTER, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
LET’S GET —
>> IT’S AN HONOR, WOLF.
>> THANK YOU.
IN VLADIMIR PUTIN’S TWISTED,
TOTALLY FALSE NARRATIVE THAT WE
HEARD EARLIER TODAY, IT’S THE
WEST THAT STARTED THIS WAR AND
IS TRYING TO DESTROY RUSSIA.
HOW DO YOU READ HIS MINDSET
GOING INTO YEAR TWO OF THIS WAR?
>> I THINK HE’S PRETTY
DESPERATE.
WHAT HE SAID, IS, OF COURSE,
LUDICROUS.
THE WEST HAS NO ROLE IN STARTING
THIS WAR.
IT WAS A WAR OF CHOICE THAT HE
INITIATED.
IT WAS HIS VICIOUS NONPROVOKED
ATTACK ON UKRAINE FEBRUARY 24th
LAST YEAR THAT STARTED THIS WAR.
UKRAINE WAS NEVER GOING TO JOIN
NATO IN ANY REALISTIC TIME
SCALE.
HE KNEW THAT.
HE DID THIS FOR HIS OWN —
PRINCIPALLY FOR HIS OWN DOMESTIC
REASONS AND WANTS TO REBUILD THE
SOVIET EMPIRE.
HE IS CURRENTLY FAILING IN ALL
HIS KEY STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES,
WOLF.
HE FAILED TO GET KYIV.
HE FAILED TO CONQUER KHARKIV.
AND HE’S FAILED IN KHERSON AS
WELL.
BUT THE WAR IS VERY BITTER, VERY
BLOODY AND HE NEEDS TO BE PUSHED
OUT OF THE WHOLE OF UKRAINE AND
WE NEED TO GIVE THE UKRAINIANS
THE HELP THEY NEED NOW.
NOW, NOW, NOW.
>> VERY STRONG WORDS FROM YOU.
I KNOW YOU DEALT WITH PUTIN AND
I REMEMBER RIGHT AT THE START OF
THIS BRUTAL INVASION YOU WERE
THEN PRIME MINISTER.
AND YOU MADE AN EXTRAORDINARY
CLAIM TO THE BBC IS THAT PUTIN
ALMOST JOKINGLY SUGGESTED THAT
HE COULD TAKE YOU OUT WITH A
MISSILE.
YOU REMEMBER THAT?
>> YEAH.
>> WHAT CAN YOU DELL US ABOUT
THAT EXCHANGE?
>> THIS IS IN THE COURSE OF ONE
OF THE CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH
VLADIMIR PUTIN IN THE RUN-UP TO
HIS INVASION.
AND WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO IS
TO CREEP US OUT.
AND AS HE DID IN HIS SPEECH
TODAY, TO TRY TO INTRODUCE INTO
THE CONVERSATION CONTINUALLY THE
IDEA OF NUCLEAR MISSILE
EXCHANGES, THE UNPREDICTABLE
CONSEQUENCES OF THIS BECOMING A
NUCLEAR CONFLICT.
IT’S VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, WOLF,
WE DON’T ALLOW HIM TO DO THAT.
WE DON’T ALLOW HIM TO FRAME THIS
CONFLICT AS SOME KIND OF NUCLEAR
STANDOFF BETWEEN NUCLEAR ARMED
NATO AND A NUCLEAR ARMED RUSSIA.
THIS IS ABOUT THE INVASION OF AN
INNOCENT, EUROPEAN COUNTRY BY
CONVENTIONAL MEANS AND US,
FRIENDS, SUPPORTERS OF UKRAINE,
MARLY THE UNITED STATES, THE UK,
MANY OTHERS HELPING THE
UKRAINIANS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES
BY CONVENTIONAL MEANS.
WE MUST NOT ALLOW PUTIN TO TAKE
US DOWN THAT NUCLEAR RABBIT HOLE
IF YOU LIKE.
>> HOW POWERFUL WAS IT, PRIME
MINISTER, FOR THE PRESIDENT OFT
UNITED STATES TO MAKE THAT
SECRET TRIP, RISKY TO KYIV, ON
THIS THE EVE OF THE ANNIVERSARY
OF THE START OF THE WAR?
YOU, YOURSELF, MADE THAT SAME
TRIP SEVERAL TIMES.
>> I THINK IT’S FANTASTIC THAT
JOE BIDEN DID THAT.
CONGRATULATE HIM.
I THINK — AS FAR AS I
UNDERSTAND, THE MATTER THIS WAS
ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES IN
HISTORY THAT THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES HAS GONE
OUTSIDE AN AREA WHERE THE U.S.
AIR FORCE CAN EXERCISE DIRECT
CONTROL.
I’VE DONE THAT TRIP SEVERAL
TIMES.
I KNOW THAT TRAIN VERY WELL.
YOU SLEEP ON A DOUBLE BED
SURROUNDED BY ALL SORTS OF COMMY
BLING.
IT’S A COMMUNIST ERA BLING.
EVERY TIME YOU BUMP OVER THE
POINTS AND IT’S A VERY, VERY
BUMPY TRACK, YOU KEEP THINKING
YOU’RE BEING HIT BY A MISSILE.
THIS WAS HOW I FELT THE FIRST
TIME I DID IT.
IT WAS EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING
FOR THE PRESIDENT TO DO.
I APPLAUD HIM AND I THOUGHT HIS
SPEECH WAS EXCELLENT.
>> AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, THERE
ARE SOME CRITICS IN THE UNITED
STATES ON THE FRINGES, SHALL WE
SAY, WHO ACCUSE PRESIDENT BIDEN
OF PRIORITIZING THIS WAR OVER
DOMESTIC PROBLEMS.
AND REPUBLICANS LIKE FLORIDA
GOVERNOR RON DeSANTIS,
QUESTIONING WHAT HE CALLS THE
BLANK CHECK TO UKRAINE.
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WORRIES
THE UK RIGHT NOW?
WORRIES OUR WESTERN ALLIES?
>> LET ME BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR
WITH EVERYBODY, THE INVESTMENT
IN SUPPORTING THE UKRAINIANS IS
A MASSIVE ECONOMY.
IF IT HELPS PROTECT OUR PEACE IN
THE LONG TERM.
IF WE FAIL TO EXPUNGE PUTIN FROM
UKRAINE, IF THE UKRAINIANS LOSE,
THEN THE JEOPARDY FOR THE WHOLE
EURO-ATLANTIC SECURITY AREA, FOR
THE UNITED STATES, IS ALL THE
GREATER.
AND OF COURSE, THE RISKS OF READ
ACROSS IN THE PACIFIC ARE ALL
THE GREATER.
BY HELPING THE UKRAINIANS TO
WIN, BY DECISIVE ACTION, BY
GIVING THEM WHAT THEY NEED NOW,
AND I’M TALKING ABOUT MORE
TANKS, MORE PLANES, MORE
LONG-RANGE ARTILLERY, I BELIEVE
THAT THE UKRAINIANS CAN AND WILL
WIN AND THAT WILL BE DECISIVE
IMPORTANCE FOR WESTERN SECURITY.
AND MY MESSAGE TO ALL MY
AMERICAN FRIENDS IS THIS WILL
SAVE US ALL MONEY IN THE LONG
RUN.
>> BECAUSE I KNOW YOU SAY IT’S
TIME FOR THE UK TO CUT TO THE
CHASE AND PROVIDE UKRAINE WITH
FIGHTER JETS.
IF THE UK TAKES THAT STEP, HOW
LONG WOULD IT ACTUALLY TAKE,
THOUGH, TO COMPLETE THE
TRAINING, TO DELIVER THE
AIRCRAFT, TO ACTUALLY MAKE A
REAL DIFFERENCE OUT THERE ON THE
BATTLEFIELD?
>> WELL, WOLF, THIS HAS BEEN
GOING ON FOR A YEAR.
AND WE ALL KNOW THAT IN THE
COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR WE’VE
EVENTUALLY HAVING EXHAUSTED ALL
THE OTHER OPTIONS WE HAVE GIVEN
THE UKRAINIANS WHAT THEY NEED,
WHETHER IT’S THE ANTI-TANK
MISSILES OR WHETHER IT’S THE
HIGH MARS SYSTEMS OR WHETHER
IT’S NOW TANKS.
WE ALWAYS SOONER OR LATER COME
TO THE RIGHT ANSWER AND GIVE THE
UKRAINIANS WHAT THEY NEED.
IF IT’S GOING TO BE SOONER OR
LATER, IF THAT’S THE CHOICE,
THEN LET’S GIVE THEM WHAT THEY
NEED SOONER, BECAUSE THAT IS THE
HUMANE, THE COMPASSIONATE THING,
FINISH THIS WAR AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE, MINIMIZE THE
BLOODSHED, MINIMIZE THE
SUFFERING, MINIMIZE THE EXPENSE.
AND IF WE HAD STARTED GIVING
THEM AIRPLANES A YEAR AGO, WE
WOULD BE THAT MUCH FURTHER DOWN
THE TRACK.
I DON’T BELIEVE IT WOULD TAKE
THAT LONG TO TRAIN PEOPLE UP TO
FLY TYPHOONS OR F16s OR WHATEVER
WE DECIDE WE’RE ABLE TO GIVE
THEM, BUT LET’S GET ON WITH IT.
AND IF IT’S A QUESTION OF
SENDING PEOPLE WHO CAN DO THE
AIF ONICES AND THE GROUND STAFF
AS WELL, TRAINING PEOPLE TO DO
THAT, THEN LET’S TRAIN THEM AS
WELL.
>> SO CAN I ASSUME, PRIME
MINISTER, YOU’RE CALLING ON
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE U.S. TO
START PROVIDING THESE F16 JETS
TO UKRAINE?
>> THAT IS CORRECT.
AND I THINK THAT THE LOGIC OF
WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IS TO
CONTINUE TO GIVE THE UKRAINIANS
WHAT THEY NEED TO PROTECT
THEMSELVES, TO PROTECT THEIR
HOME, TO PROTECT THEIR FAMILIES
TO PROTECT THEIR COUNTRY AND TO
EXPEL PUTIN FROM THE AREAS THAT
HE HAS CONQUERED, AT LEAST SINCE
THE INVASION OF FEBRUARY 24th OF
LAST YEAR AND IN MY VIEW NOW I
THINK THE UKRAINIANS HAVE AN
EVER STRONGER CASE FOR GETTING
HIM OUT BACK TO THE 1991
BORDERS.
THAT’S WHAT — THAT’S THE
UKRAINE THAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR IN
1991.
THAT’S THE COUNTRY TO WHICH
THEY’RE ENTITLED.
>> I KNOW PRIME MINISTER, YOU
SHARE THE U.S. CONCERNS WHEN IT
COMES TO CHINA’S SUPPORT FOR
RUSSIA’S WAR.
WHAT CHANGED CHINA’S CALCULATION
ON POSSIBLY, POSSIBLY STARTING
TO PROVIDE LETHAL WEAPONS TO
RUSSIA?
>> WELL, LOOK, EVERYBODY SAID
WHAT TONY BLINKEN SAID ABOUT
CHINA.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY WRONG
OF THE CHINESE TO SUPPORT
VLADIMIR PUTIN IN THAT WAY.
WHY WOULD BEIJING NOW WANT TO BE
CONTAMINATED BY WHAT PUTIN IS
DOING?
WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO BE
ASSOCIATED WITH THIS
GANGSTERRISM AND ADVENTURISM, I
THINK IT WOULD BE A DISASTER FOR
CHINA.
AND I HOPE VERY MUCH THAT IT
WON’T PROVE TO BE TRUE.
BUT IF IT IS TRUE, IT SHOWS ALL
THE MORE CLEARLY WHY WE MUST NOW
ACCELERATE OUR SUPPORT FOR
UKRAINE.
AND DOUBLE DOWN ON GIVING THEM
WHAT THEY NEED.
AND AS I SAY, IF NOT NOW, WHEN?
>> BEFORE I LET YOU GO, PRIME
MINISTER, I KNOW YOU BUILT A
VERY DEEP AND STRONG
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE UKRAINIAN
PRESIDENT, VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY.
HOW DO YOU THINK HISTORY WILL
REMEMBER HIS LEADERSHIP IN THIS
FIGHT?
>> I THINK VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY
WILL BE REMEMBERED FOREVER AS A
PRESIDENT OF A FREE UKRAINE WHO
NOT ONLY MOBILIZED AND
GALVANIZED HIS PEOPLE BUT FOUND
THE LANGUAGE TO APPEAL TO PEOPLE
AROUND THE WORLD.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT HERE IN THE
UNITED KINGDOM, YOU WILL SEE
UKRAINIAN FLAGS IN PEOPLE’S
WINDOWS OF THEIR HOMES.
YOU’LL SEE UKRAINIAN BADGES ON
PEOPLE — PEOPLE WEARING
UKRAINIAN TIES, UKRAINIAN FLAGS
FLYING FROM CHURCH SPIRES, SUCH
AS THE SYMPATHY AND COMPASSION
THAT HE HAS EVOKED.
HE HAS BEEN A TRULY
INSPIRATIONAL WAR LEADER.
AND IN ONE CRUCIAL RESPECT, HE
HAS SUCCESSFULLY MIMICKED
WINSTON CHURCHILL HIMSELF
BECAUSE IT IS CLEAR FROM WHAT
JOE BIDEN HAD TO SAY THIS
AFTERNOON, THAT VOLODYMYR
ZELENSKYY HAS MOBILIZED THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
AND WHEN AMERICA COMES IN ON THE
SIDE OF FREEDOM, AS AMERICA IS
TODAY IN UKRAINE, IN MY VIEW,
THERE IS ONLY GOING TO BE ONE
OUTCOME.
THIS IS A WAR FOR INDEPENDENCE.
THE UKRAINIANS ARE FIGHTING FOR
THEIR INDEPENDENCE.
AND HISTORY TEACHERS ASK WARS OF
INDEPENDENCE ONLY END ONE WAY.
WITH THE UNITED STATES ON THEIR
SIDE, I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT
AT ALL THAT THE UKRAINIANS ARE
GOING TO WIN.
BUT LET’S — SINCE THAT IS THE
CASE, LET’S MINIMIZE THE
SUFFERING AND GIVE THE
